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[Music]

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so

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hello everybody welcome back to the

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disclosure team youtube channel that was

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the trailer for our upcoming documentary

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series phenomenology which airs on may

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the first you can go and subscribe now

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to the dedicated phenomenology youtube

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channel we've already got the trailer up

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there we've also got a rough cuts edit

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just to give you guys like an idea of

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the tone of how the series is gonna look

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but for now we're here to talk about

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canada um and ufos and canada so i'm

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gonna waste no more time i'm gonna bring

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in uh the panel for tonight

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starting with miss chrissy newton

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chrissy how are you

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i'm good how are you good to see you i'm

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really good yeah good to see you too

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thank you so much for joining me

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appreciate it

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next up we have um mr daniel otis daniel

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how are you doing i'm great thanks so

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much for having me vinnie oh the

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pleasure's all mine i really appreciate

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you joining us

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and finally uh

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mr victor vigiani victor it's good to

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see you great to be with you vinnie

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thank you so much

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this is great great panel i'm really

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really excited to discuss

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canada um

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canada being one of the sort of five

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eyes alliance very similar to what it's

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like over here in the uk

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thought i've seen some in some of the

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research i've been doing in preparation

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for this i've seen some similarities

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between the way that the canadian

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government and the uk government have

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handled the subject over the years

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um

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and we'll get into that a little bit as

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well as some of the more recent news and

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especially daniel you've been involved

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in

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but to start with um i wanted to start

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with you actually daniel because you're

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a journalist who covers this subject and

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i was just interested to see

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if you've encountered much of the stigma

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and taboo surrounding the subject since

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you've been writing about it

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uh well the short answer is certainly

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yes you know i've been working as a

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journalist for over a decade

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for a lot of major publications here in

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canada and elsewhere and over the past

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year almost i've been writing about um

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ufos for vice

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when i first started talking to my

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colleagues about you know this new

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interest of mine you know it's

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definitely a lot of smirks and eye

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rolling but when the access to

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information requests started coming in

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and i could hold up canadian air force

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documents that outline you know what a

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commercial pilot you know just saw

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then i noticed perspective started to

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change i think the stigma still exists

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if you look at mainstream media in

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canada for the most part canadian

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publications only are really covering

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the subject unless it's an american

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development you know like the big odni

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reports or stuff like that when it comes

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to canadian data and canadian

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developments for some reason canadian

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media

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more or less uh you know steers clear

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from it you know with the exception of

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me and a very small number of other

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people

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um i i'd say it's it's i don't know what

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the media is is like in uh you know in

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europe in the uk it's canada is not what

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it's like in the united states where you

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see a growing mainstream acceptance

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where you know cnn new york times et

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cetera are doing stories on the subject

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canada it's just it's early days yet but

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hopefully you know the sort of work i'm

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doing will help thaw that media climate

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a bit

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yeah absolutely

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yeah go for it go for it

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no it's just going to cycle what daniel

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said he's doing fabulous work you know

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we don't as a canadian that works with

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media all the time i don't see it as

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well and you know we have a story that

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breaks and then two weeks later if it's

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a ufo story daniel's already covered it

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before for vice but then we see other

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mainstream media in canada catch up two

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weeks later and just kind of put

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together the parts and the pieces

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and it's unfortunate and also american

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media works better with other media than

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canadian media canadian media like cbc

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for example won't work with other

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outlets um they won't work with certain

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journalists because they want to

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obviously find their own stories but

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they have

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there are rules against that so it's

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unfortunate just the way that media is

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disseminated here especially right yeah

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yeah over here we have sort of two types

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of media we have the tabloids who cover

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it regularly but it's all alien hunters

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and

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you know that kind of really trashy

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stories on it and then every now and

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again we have to they cover big things

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like daniel mentioned the odni report

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but yeah it's mainly the tabloids

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unfortunately victor what about yourself

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have you come across any any stigma in

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taboo

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whether recently or over the years and

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have you seen it change

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in time

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well over the past 45 years i've been

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covering this issue it's pretty much

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exactly the way

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i guess daniel described it here in

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canada

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there's a real

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sick duplicity with which uh canadian

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media particularly the cbc uh has chosen

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to deal with this issue

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i put on the the plate of the cvc

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uh a number of issues uh over the years

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uh only one of which got any kind of

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massive coverage by the cbc on the

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current by anna maria tremonte when the

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uap issue hit its peak in 2017 and

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that's a story for another time but uh

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anna maria tremonti went after it in in

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within days

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of 2017 uh december 17th

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and uh she covered it very very well she

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asked the canadian air force to be part

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of it uh they they uh they did not

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consent to it they say they sent a nice

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letter to her a letter of denial that we

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didn't cover this stuff so that kind of

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duplicity is present within just about

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every aspect of the canadian media now

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there is the the odd individual

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journalists like michael jorlay

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at global news who uh did some coverage

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of it uh with me

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but then again uh it it rises up the

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flagpole and then within days it's taken

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down so uh it's it's really unfortunate

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that that's the way the canadian media

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uh it covers things um it's almost like

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they're they're waiting for something

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really big to happen and when it does

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happen they approach it um with with kid

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gloves and then just drop it the next

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day so and in conversation with the

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people at the current um one of the

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producers i asked him that question

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what's the big deal

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and he said it's just not news in our

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book that we can sustain we just can't

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sustain that kind of information over

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the long period of time

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meanwhile it's the biggest issue facing

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the human family and the biggest

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news organization in canada

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finds it impossible to cover that kind

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of information so i look at it as uh i

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wouldn't call it uh a secrecy or

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anything or government control i just

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think it's uh i call just sick duplicity

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on their part not to realize that this

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is in fact the biggest story uh facing

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the human family

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yeah and i see the same thing on the

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press release side when i'm sending

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stuff out on the debrief and i see that

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canadian media is reading the stuff that

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we're breaking in science tech in ufos

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um i know that they're reading our press

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releases um but i know that it's not

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getting disseminated through um and

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we're pitching it too but you know i see

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bbc is more likely to come back and for

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sure american media is more than likely

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to talk about it in all different facets

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um but the way that they tell the

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stories are different too you know

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american stories versus canadian stories

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on the topic are a different way they

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cover it as well so

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do you think it might be the sort of

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higher ups in these media companies that

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stop it in its tracks because i'd

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imagine some of the younger journalists

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probably want to to start covering it i

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don't know what do you think

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i think it's uh you know it's butting up

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against individual perspectives you know

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i'm not going to give specific examples

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but i i've been working for mainstream

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media outlets for years and uh you know

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recently i have uh spoken to editors in

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different places about the subject

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and

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it it's very hard to

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you know we're still dealing with the

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question

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this stuff real you know what i mean you

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know for anyone who digs deep into the

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topic the validity of the the data you

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know speaks for itself right once once

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you dive into it there are cases of

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genuine unidentified aerial objects

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being seen but i i think for people who

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aren't initiated and because it's not so

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widespread in canadian media you know i

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i'm still grappling with that question i

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thought was over you know do ufos exist

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do uap exist when you know the real

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question is uh what are they right um

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and yeah so it's higher ups it's

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individuals it's just you know the

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the message that's been put out by

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outlets like the new york times just

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hasn't really filtered into the into the

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psyche here i feel

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yeah and you do have a hierarchy there

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are you know you work with journalists

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for sure that are freelancing you work

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journalists that are staff writers

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you're working with senior producers

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associate producers you know there's a

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whole hierarchy that goes up because

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prefer in the past not even just ufos i

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pitched a story and then we've you know

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it's only happened i think twice in my

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in my career of like 12 years where i've

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had one story two stories just stopped

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we were supposed to go that morning and

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do a piece in the studio and they end up

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just it gone to the heads and the heads

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were like no we're not doing it so it

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does happen it's possible um do i know

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the reasons why no for ufos i've never

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seen that myself but i think it's just a

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topic that canada is not

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very well versed in and there's only so

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many of us too that talk about the

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subject as well and are maybe a little

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more deeper than the average journalist

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but i think that will change um we're

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seeing that american media is picking up

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and they're creating like their own ufo

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kind of divisions within news networks

277
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:47,920
and talking about it more so that will

278
00:10:51,430 --> 00:10:49,519
start to trickle up here too and they'll

279
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:51,440
probably start looking at you know like

280
00:10:54,790 --> 00:10:53,600
honestly daniel otis is like you're

281
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:54,800
should be the forefront right now a

282
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:56,720
little bit to be honest i'm like in

283
00:11:00,550 --> 00:10:58,880
looking at that and taking that person

284
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:00,560
and taking daniel and growing it even

285
00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:02,800
more but i think we'll see that you know

286
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:04,240
maybe in the years to come but it's i

287
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,360
don't think it's gonna happen anytime

288
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:07,279
soon unfortunately so

289
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:08,240
yeah

290
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:09,519
i mean over the years i'm just gonna go

291
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:10,959
back a little bit historically when it

292
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:12,640
comes to the government in canada and

293
00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:15,200
ufos i think they've been investigating

294
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:17,680
ufos i think at least from 1950 to about

295
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:19,279
1955

296
00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:22,160
across multiple departments and agencies

297
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:23,920
i think project magnet and project

298
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:26,000
second story but then it kind of seems

299
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:27,839
to trail off and you don't see as much

300
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,279
and it kind of reminds me again of

301
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:31,920
what's happening here in the uk but

302
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:33,360
do you think the government are still

303
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:35,360
investigating it in canada has anyone

304
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:37,440
come across anything or spoken to anyone

305
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:41,200
that that gives that impression

306
00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:43,040
i i think you need to draw a line

307
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:45,440
between investigating and documenting

308
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:46,560
there's uh

309
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:49,360
active canadian procedures for aviation

310
00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:51,600
for example that have been on the books

311
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:53,200
for years now

312
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:55,360
if you are a commercial pilot you know

313
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:57,440
it says if you see a quote unidentified

314
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:59,200
flying object this is how you file your

315
00:12:03,269 --> 00:12:00,880
report

316
00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:03,279
canada has been actively documenting

317
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:05,680
cases for decades you know from the dawn

318
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:08,160
of the cold war in the early 1950s up

319
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:11,760
until today but any sort of official

320
00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:15,120
efforts to investigate cases seem to

321
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:18,399
have ended you know around it's hard to

322
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:21,040
say about the 19 around in the 1990s we

323
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:22,160
have something called the national

324
00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:24,079
research council of canada it's a

325
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:26,079
federal research body they were

326
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,279
collecting reports from the military

327
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:31,839
the police et cetera up until the mid

328
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:34,399
90s and that's when i think official

329
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,720
interest uh petered out but that being

330
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:38,720
said you know the the procedures to

331
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,399
document cases still exist with the

332
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:42,959
military and with aviation authorities

333
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:45,680
those reports still come in and in cases

334
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:48,560
where there's a clear regulatory or

335
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,440
defense nexus they are investigated for

336
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:54,160
example there was a case of a flight

337
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:56,959
over lake ontario near toronto here in

338
00:13:01,829 --> 00:13:00,320
2016 that took an evasive maneuver to

339
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,839
avoid something

340
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,600
because flight attendants were injured

341
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,680
during the evasive maneuver there was a

342
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,519
bit of an investigation you know because

343
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:09,680
there was a something to follow up on

344
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:11,920
and a regulatory perspective another

345
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:14,399
example i've found a few cases where

346
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:16,639
unidentified objects have been picked up

347
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:19,839
on military norad radar you know

348
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,399
unidentified objects uh approaching

349
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,399
north america and in those cases there

350
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:26,480
was some follow-up and investigation but

351
00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:29,040
for 99 of the cases even if it's you

352
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,399
know uh

353
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:32,639
eric canada pilot for example seeing

354
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:34,720
something incredibly odd there's not

355
00:13:38,230 --> 00:13:36,639
going to be an investigation unless

356
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,240
there's a clear

357
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:40,720
safety or security nexus you know i

358
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,639
think that in the u.s

359
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,480
everything is seen under the lens of

360
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,880
national security whereas in canada it

361
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:48,399
has to you know

362
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,000
show to be a known incredible threat uh

363
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:54,480
for that investigation to happen

364
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:56,480
yeah yeah and victor i just mentioned a

365
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,399
couple of the old cases and it seemed at

366
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:00,399
the time in the sort of 50s and 60s that

367
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,959
the government did conclude that the

368
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:04,720
phenomena did not lend itself to a

369
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:07,440
scientific method of investigation in

370
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,199
your research have you come across

371
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,120
things that really go against that

372
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:13,680
statement well i think

373
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:15,680
once you begin injecting the idea of

374
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:18,800
science into this whole thing

375
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,560
science on this issue does not know

376
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,480
what's asked from page one as far as i'm

377
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,639
concerned um

378
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:26,240
science has a certain way of looking at

379
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,600
everything it looks

380
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:29,360
specifically in data this is not about

381
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,800
data at all

382
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,399
this is about

383
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:34,880
the human experience of

384
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:37,279
witnesses throughout the ages this goes

385
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:39,600
back historically in time as far as we

386
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:40,959
can even imagine

387
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:43,600
and what we're dealing with since 1952

388
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,440
back in 47 is a minute a particle of

389
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:49,279
this whole issue

390
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:51,920
and i think that's why

391
00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:54,399
the media in general and science in

392
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:56,839
general refuses to really look at the

393
00:15:02,629 --> 00:14:59,920
overall drastic implications of talking

394
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:02,639
about this in a serious manner and the

395
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:05,680
microcosm or the the spec in in the uh i

396
00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:08,480
guess in the myopic view of media since

397
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,440
1947 has really held us back

398
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:13,600
to understand the whole

399
00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:16,160
i guess global and galactic implications

400
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:22,310
1200 1500 maybe even longer years long

401
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:23,760
that's something that's never ever

402
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,600
discussed about this to look at the

403
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:27,680
current data you're only looking at a

404
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,079
pinhole you're you're looking at a small

405
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:32,639
pinhole through uh which you can look at

406
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:35,680
the data we need to widen that pinhole

407
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:36,800
and make it

408
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:39,279
more accessible to everyone with respect

409
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,440
to uh the huge amount of information is

410
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:42,800
available and we're just not looking at

411
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:43,600
that

412
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:47,360
so you know looking at one investigation

413
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:49,360
looking at an incident really doesn't

414
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,959
give you a flavor of what this issue is

415
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:53,440
really really all about with respect to

416
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:55,759
how the entire human family is looking

417
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,079
at it and canada is only part of it of

418
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,320
course uh but it can it has its own

419
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:02,000
myopic way of looking at it which does

420
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,800
not help at all so um there's a bigger

421
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:06,480
issue here there's a much much bigger

422
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:08,000
issue

423
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,360
yeah do you think sometimes witness

424
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,519
testimony in individual sightings that

425
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:13,360
doesn't have any sort of data to back

426
00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:15,120
them up do you think they just get swept

427
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:16,560
under the rug because they don't have

428
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:19,120
that additional data of course

429
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,800
an individual sighting really means

430
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:23,040
nothing uh you can you know list them

431
00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:24,160
all

432
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:27,680
sightings but

433
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:30,160
in fact the matter with one individual

434
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:32,880
witness sighting we really don't look at

435
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,199
the entirety of it so it's once again we

436
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,240
go back to the pinhole um analogy that i

437
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:40,639
looked at

438
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:41,920
yeah so what do you think the best way

439
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,600
would be to expand those horizons

440
00:16:50,470 --> 00:16:47,759
for me you're asking me that well how

441
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:50,480
for anybody

442
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:53,279
i have my own very strong views on that

443
00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:54,959
um but

444
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:56,560
the victory what you're talking about

445
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,560
isn't really in the realm of news media

446
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,240
you know you're talking about a scope

447
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,320
that's better situated for the academic

448
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:05,199
environment for historians i mean

449
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:06,880
news media

450
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,799
regardless of the subject is concerned

451
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,199
with like current events you know and i

452
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:13,360
think at least what i'm trying to do uh

453
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,160
in some stories is you know show the

454
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,480
contemporary cases and the contemporary

455
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:20,640
procedures and then show you know the

456
00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:22,720
historical continuity insofar as the

457
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:24,400
documents record allows you know which

458
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:26,480
is to the dawn of the cold war

459
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:28,480
as as you say people have been

460
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,400
experiencing things like this you know

461
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,039
for much longer than that but you know

462
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,600
it's so if you're going to you know gain

463
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,240
mainstream acceptance of the veracity of

464
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,400
this topic you have to have whatever

465
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,720
shred of verifiable you know supporting

466
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:45,039
data you can you can produce you know

467
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,200
you're dealing with an audience that

468
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:49,039
fundamentally doesn't believe in the

469
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:50,559
validity of what you're presenting with

470
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:53,200
them so you know at least in my set in

471
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,120
my perspective i'm trying to present it

472
00:17:59,909 --> 00:17:57,520
you know in the sort of most clearest

473
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:59,919
verifiable way if i mention the case

474
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:02,240
every story has a pdf attached with all

475
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:05,039
the source material for example uh which

476
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:07,280
you're talking about is valid and you

477
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:08,720
know there are

478
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:10,559
fascinating uh accounts in the

479
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,799
historical record i just don't know how

480
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:14,640
one could present those within the

481
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,840
medium

482
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:17,760
of news media i really don't think it's

483
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:19,600
the the individual cases that i'm

484
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:20,720
learning to

485
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:23,600
i think what i'm talking about is the

486
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,360
the larger implications of what this

487
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:27,280
phenomenon is all about

488
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:29,600
and what i think media is most afraid of

489
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,080
first of all is the level of secrecy

490
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,080
that they might discover about this over

491
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,720
the past 75 years that's the first thing

492
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:38,640
and once that's uncovered

493
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,520
or at least put into the daylight

494
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:43,679
we might be able to move along to the

495
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,480
next issue and the next issue is the

496
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,919
fact that we're being engaged by

497
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:49,840
off-world civilizations that's been

498
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:52,480
proven uh time and time again and the

499
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:54,720
the third thing is

500
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,039
how these off-world civilizations are

501
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,960
getting here

502
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:00,640
what kinds of technologies are they

503
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,280
using to to pilot these whatever these

504
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:05,440
craft are whatever they might be and

505
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:06,720
wherever they're from as soon as we

506
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:07,919
begin to engage that kind of

507
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,000
conversation you completely change the

508
00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:14,470
yeah and i i hear what you're saying

509
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:16,000
victor i'm like i think with just where

510
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,600
we stand in news media and that's why

511
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:19,919
we're having trouble getting through

512
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:22,160
is because we also first of all need to

513
00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,840
get better journalists than this like

514
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:25,919
daniel otis is one and we only have a

515
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:28,400
few especially in canada but even

516
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:29,919
journalists around the world you know

517
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:32,000
they're learning about this beat and

518
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:34,480
it's more than 75 years now oh there

519
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:35,679
goes my light i knew that was gonna

520
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:38,320
happen

521
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,360
vinnie and i were just talking about it

522
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:40,640
before we went on

523
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,520
uh and so i think we've had like

524
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:45,919
75 years of this where we haven't had

525
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,520
proper journalism where we've had you

526
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:49,440
know more fringe journalists come in and

527
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:51,200
talk about this and no more so i think

528
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:52,559
we need to start it like getting

529
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,320
journalists that actually understand and

530
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:56,799
have a good understanding of what has

531
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:59,520
happened throughout along with us unlike

532
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,760
pulling apart this onion and layers of

533
00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,840
things that we're just finding out now

534
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,840
so we need to start there and then we

535
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,600
start moving into bigger stories and

536
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,840
then asking better questions because i

537
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,200
think our journalists now are just kind

538
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:12,960
of doing the who what where when why and

539
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:14,000
how

540
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:15,360
most of them aren't getting into the

541
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:17,039
knitting gritty because they don't know

542
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:19,600
because there's so much information

543
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:21,200
and there's new information coming out

544
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:23,039
daily now so

545
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:24,640
i think what they need to do is start

546
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,200
finding and cultivating people or just

547
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:29,280
groups of people or going to more french

548
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,880
people that have a better understanding

549
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:32,880
and journalists are doing that now more

550
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,880
than ever but i think that's where we

551
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,400
need to start and then we start moving

552
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:37,840
into the fingers what you're saying

553
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,159
chrissy i think that

554
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,480
the ufo research community or uap

555
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:44,480
research community over the past

556
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:47,120
you know 35 to 40 years has done the

557
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:48,799
work the media should have been doing

558
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,000
back in 1955.

559
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:53,919
we've done it

560
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:56,080
all that work has been done

561
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,000
all of the experts that have delved into

562
00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:00,240
this over the past 75 years have done

563
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,960
the work but it's quite clear

564
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:04,159
journalists have just ignored the

565
00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:06,799
information so if you want to start now

566
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,640
you're really starting at a bad place

567
00:21:11,750 --> 00:21:10,640
you've got to go back further than that

568
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,760
to realize

569
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:13,360
that the work has already been done for

570
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,640
them all they have to do is look at the

571
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:17,200
information to start you don't start now

572
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,720
you look back at what's already been

573
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,880
done and that really is a real crime

574
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:23,039
this whole thing people are ignoring the

575
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,039
information ignoring the technologies

576
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:27,600
ignoring the global implications of this

577
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:29,120
so you know

578
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:30,960
if we're just starting from square one

579
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:33,280
and getting people aware now uh we're

580
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,520
really starting off at a disadvantage so

581
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,760
i would uh really

582
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,760
encourage any journalists that are worth

583
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:41,760
their salt to look at what we've already

584
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:43,520
done what the ufo research committee has

585
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:45,679
done over the past 70 years and plug

586
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:48,480
into it and bring that forward

587
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,360
you know yeah i i think sorry dan no i i

588
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:53,840
just quickly i i think there's

589
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:56,559
one has to present a perspective victor

590
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:58,880
and i i think you know where i for

591
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:00,159
example to

592
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:02,159
attempt to write a

593
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:03,120
uh

594
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,360
mainstream news story on you know

595
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,200
experiencers you know it's probably

596
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:10,080
likely the end of my ability to continue

597
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,400
writing for these types of outlets you

598
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,640
know i think what's important you don't

599
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:16,720
instead of bringing people to your

600
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,200
conclusions is to impress upon them the

601
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,120
fact that there's a mystery and that

602
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,200
it's alive and well on this planet you

603
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:25,679
know i think that is

604
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,320
the step we need to be taking now as

605
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:30,320
communicators of the subject and

606
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,320
particularly in a country

607
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:34,559
where acceptance of the veracity of the

608
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:37,120
subject is still in its infancy you know

609
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,720
it it's a big enough job to impress upon

610
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,880
people through official documents for

611
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:44,799
example that there is a mystery on this

612
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,600
planet and i i think you can potentially

613
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:49,200
do a disservice

614
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:51,840
to communicating the message if you

615
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,400
bring people to conclusions who are you

616
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:56,720
know who haven't absorbed any of this

617
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,240
material to begin with

618
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:00,240
no i completely disagree with you

619
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:03,120
i think i agree i agree that by

620
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:04,960
mentioning

621
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,120
experiences we'd be moving too fast i

622
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:09,200
completely agree with you there

623
00:23:13,510 --> 00:23:11,520
however uh this information that's been

624
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,520
come coming forward for the past 75

625
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,080
years journalistically it's all there

626
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:17,919
it's all there it's not something that's

627
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:19,840
a mystery it's the the information

628
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,760
investigation has already been done it's

629
00:23:26,070 --> 00:23:23,520
just a good journalism has refused to

630
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:26,080
look at it and it's nothing new it's not

631
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,120
very much different than what we're

632
00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:28,640
dealing with right now

633
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,360
but the thing is right now is that it

634
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:33,520
seems to be

635
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,320
almost being framed as a new issue and

636
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:38,159
that's the big problem that i have this

637
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:40,559
is not a new issue this is an issue

638
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,919
that's been with humanity for a long

639
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,360
time now how you approach it

640
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:44,960
journalistically that's going to be a

641
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:46,799
very delicate and diplomatic thing that

642
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,880
that you as a journalist have to do

643
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:50,400
but you do not start

644
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:51,919
from the very beginning you have to look

645
00:23:56,230 --> 00:23:54,159
at all of the work and all of the

646
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:56,240
political work that's been done all the

647
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,919
scientific work that's been done and

648
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,760
bring people forward to look at the

649
00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:01,600
information that we have already without

650
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:03,520
starting from page one that's all i'm

651
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,400
saying yeah yeah and i i think i think

652
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:08,000
we're all kind of saying the same thing

653
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:09,679
to be honest in certain ways maybe not

654
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:12,480
agreeing on the the initial topic if

655
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:14,080
experiencers let's just leave that out

656
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:15,520
for now but i think we all probably

657
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:16,880
agree that there has to be some

658
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:19,279
understanding of back history about the

659
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,360
topic to move forward to get better

660
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,600
journalism and i i'm hoping that we're

661
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,600
going to move that way i'm hoping that

662
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,760
media is going to go that way across you

663
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:29,360
know around the world to be honest not

664
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,840
just canada and not the states so i

665
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,279
think that's a first start and then

666
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:35,200
education let's just use from past

667
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,279
education to recent and then also we

668
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:38,880
have to be mindful of like who's telling

669
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,640
those stories because

670
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,880
we've had there's a lot of people

671
00:24:46,390 --> 00:24:44,640
telling ufo stories and a whole bunch of

672
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:46,400
different groups of people telling ufo

673
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:48,240
stories so you have to mind who those

674
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,000
people are if they're the stephen griers

675
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:52,240
if they you know are the george naps who

676
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:54,240
are all these groups of people and what

677
00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:55,440
are their backgrounds what are their

678
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,919
contributions to this too so i think

679
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:59,520
there's more than like

680
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:01,039
we just have to like get it out there

681
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,480
and get the history out there it's like

682
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:04,960
we have to do a lot of back at back

683
00:25:08,870 --> 00:25:06,960
audits of what we're doing in the

684
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:08,880
stories that we're properly telling and

685
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:10,880
then bringing science in to help prove

686
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:13,120
that narrative along to the average

687
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,279
person that's like what ufos exist like

688
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,120
there are a lot of those people still

689
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:21,840
and so we need to focus on those people

690
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,640
not so much us i think because the group

691
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:26,320
of people that like ufos are always

692
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,080
going to push for more conversations and

693
00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:30,080
better conversations i think it's how do

694
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,000
we focus on the average person that

695
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,400
doesn't know anything about ufos or what

696
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:36,159
is going on and thinks that it's all

697
00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:37,840
these other things or is confused

698
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:39,520
because they watch hn aliens all the

699
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,799
time and they're maybe not reading

700
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:43,200
political news you know no offense agent

701
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,320
aliens no friends georgia

702
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:48,240
but i think there is because they're

703
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:49,600
watching entertainment and all this

704
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:51,919
paranormal stuff and they're going oh

705
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,440
that's what this is when there's

706
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,440
actually more than that and we all know

707
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,440
that here as a group so i think we need

708
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:59,520
to nip entertainment in the butt where

709
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,679
it needs to push them forward to tell

710
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:04,320
better stories that are real and not so

711
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,200
hyper you know entertainment based and

712
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:09,760
then pushing news media to look at doing

713
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:12,080
back audits of understanding the history

714
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:13,760
and getting better journalists on the

715
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:16,640
beat and i think we all would agree with

716
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:19,039
that i hope and i i think we're in a

717
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:21,200
better position moving forward

718
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:24,640
um and i'm just obviously now thankful

719
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:26,799
that major media is covering it but i'm

720
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:28,400
only going to be thankful for so long

721
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,480
until they decide to start having more

722
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:31,840
coverage about it and then we're going

723
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:34,640
to start off that's exactly where i'm at

724
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:37,200
you know if you look at how

725
00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:40,640
for example i divide things in in a very

726
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:42,600
definitive line uh

727
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:47,200
2017 uh for me was a bookmark in history

728
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:49,039
yeah and the reason it was a bookmark is

729
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:52,000
because the new york times decided to do

730
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:53,360
something and i spoke to ralph

731
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:55,840
blumenthal about this and i said you and

732
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:57,600
leslie kane and helena cooper were

733
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:00,240
sitting in a in an editorial room at the

734
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,240
new york times

735
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,080
and uh they brought all of the

736
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,400
information forward about the

737
00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:08,640
the pentagon program to investigate the

738
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:10,960
ufos they had it all

739
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:12,640
neatly packaged

740
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,640
and they had to make a decision

741
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:17,279
to do something

742
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:19,360
and the new york times made a very very

743
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:20,880
good decision to say

744
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,360
let's run with it okay so the new york

745
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:25,440
times ran with the issue

746
00:27:31,269 --> 00:27:28,320
in very very much the same way as the

747
00:27:33,190 --> 00:27:31,279
washington post did with watergate okay

748
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:33,200
big story huge story

749
00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:36,000
pentagon involved in ufo research huge

750
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:37,760
story and the same thing the new york

751
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,760
times did with the pentagon papers huge

752
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:41,840
story

753
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:44,080
look at where watergate went and look at

754
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:45,919
the results of that look at where the

755
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:48,880
pentagon went and where that landed up

756
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,600
okay two huge massive stories

757
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:53,679
look at how the ufo issue was treated

758
00:27:59,269 --> 00:27:57,440
after 2017. it went up the flagpole

759
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:59,279
they did a great job

760
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:01,039
and that was it

761
00:28:06,149 --> 00:28:03,760
so looking at the comparison of the two

762
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,159
stories with the ufo issue there's

763
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,399
actually no comparison globally with

764
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,480
respect to the impact of this this

765
00:28:14,470 --> 00:28:12,320
should have been carried on much further

766
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:14,480
by the mainstream media in the united

767
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:16,880
states and globally too but it wasn't

768
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:18,880
so the question is why not that's the

769
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:20,799
question that we have to deal with

770
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,399
yeah the thing is we noticed last year

771
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,120
2021 in the build-up to the preliminary

772
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:27,200
assessment from the from the dod that

773
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:28,799
the there was

774
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,039
three to five mainstream articles daily

775
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,880
i couldn't keep up with it trying to

776
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,559
share things across all my social medias

777
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:35,919
but then after the

778
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:38,320
the assessment came out we had that huge

779
00:28:43,269 --> 00:28:40,799
dip where nothing seemed to happen and

780
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:43,279
mainstream media went silent as well and

781
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:45,120
so do you feel they should carry on

782
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:47,600
investigating keeping the story going or

783
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:48,960
the thing is

784
00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:50,399
and uh you know

785
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,960
pardon me for speaking at a turn

786
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:54,640
but the way it's been handled just it's

787
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:57,120
just another form of the cover-up

788
00:29:00,389 --> 00:28:59,279
it's mutated into another form of

789
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,399
duplicity

790
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:02,480
and why what's the reason behind it

791
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:03,679
that's the question i'd like to talk

792
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:04,960
about

793
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:06,799
well i think you get up and flow yeah i

794
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:08,640
think you get ebbs and flows with media

795
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:09,440
right

796
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:12,720
and it's changing so fast like the media

797
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:15,200
landscape now and the media cycle is so

798
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:17,120
quick and like dan you know this as well

799
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,039
like you you're in one day or out the

800
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:21,919
other right and so i think we and also

801
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,159
we had a lot of other stories going on

802
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:26,320
you know it's with covid and everything

803
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,919
else that was happening around you

804
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:29,520
around that you know the news media can

805
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,039
only cover so much

806
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:33,600
and so there is and i'm not you know

807
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:35,600
saying giving them any kind of like

808
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:37,520
credit in that way for sure i would like

809
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,840
more but i do understand the news cycle

810
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:41,760
that it doesn't always work that way i

811
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,399
think my challenge so much to be honest

812
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:46,000
and i don't think it's

813
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,679
it is how they're telling the stories

814
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:49,200
you know we look at like for example at

815
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:50,480
the new york times and there was a

816
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:52,799
mistake in that which you know uh leslie

817
00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:54,080
and ralph didn't you know rock

818
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:55,520
blumenthal unless the king didn't

819
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:58,559
actually know at that point that um a

820
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:01,039
tip was actually awesome right and the

821
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:02,720
funding was different and we learned

822
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,320
that in uh

823
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:06,240
in george knapp's book

824
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,919
skinwalkers at the pentagon you know

825
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:09,200
that came forward that information

826
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:10,640
wasn't properly disseminated so when

827
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:12,159
that article broke it wasn't actually

828
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:14,320
fully factual which we find out later on

829
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:16,399
and that's going to keep happening so i

830
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:18,559
think as we start moving and evolving

831
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,240
news media is going to grow through all

832
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,799
this and we have to start asking them to

833
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:24,480
ask better questions and to cover but

834
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,760
we're going to have to get used to these

835
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:27,760
ebbs and flows because they're not

836
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,640
always going to tell the subject and

837
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,159
they might not always tell it the right

838
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:34,480
way for example when we did our piece

839
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:36,480
with the hill that came out where

840
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:38,159
christopher mellon wrote for us and did

841
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:40,559
an opinion piece the hill did some work

842
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,640
with us and releasing that releasing

843
00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:45,360
that story and i can talk about that um

844
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:47,200
and what they did was they released it

845
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:48,480
with us and we did an interview with

846
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:50,480
chris based on the article that we had

847
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:52,559
as well but then the next story that

848
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:54,640
came out which they ended up putting on

849
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,440
their youtube page was saying that the

850
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:59,840
alien hypothesis was the most the

851
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:01,679
correct and that it was aliens so they

852
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,240
used a headline the hill ended up using

853
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,039
a tabloid headline to push that forward

854
00:31:11,110 --> 00:31:08,880
which isn't the story we were telling we

855
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,120
were telling the stories that the just

856
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:12,880
uh the air force has gone eight wall in

857
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:15,279
the entire ufo issue but what they did

858
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,120
was take a piece from christopher mellon

859
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,360
that said that one of the hypothesis

860
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,440
hypothesis that might be somewhat

861
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:23,360
correct is the alien one but there's

862
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:25,840
also many of them there's tons of them

863
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:27,519
that's just not the one that we know of

864
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,559
but they decided to take that use it and

865
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:32,799
to get hits and to you know what bleeds

866
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:35,760
leads concept and so they spun it and i

867
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,080
know they spun it and that wasn't any

868
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:39,840
there's nothing we could do about that

869
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:42,000
in with what we were giving them that's

870
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:43,600
what they decided to do in their editor

871
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:45,840
room when they pushed it to youtube when

872
00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:47,519
they pushed on their website and they

873
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,880
did a a

874
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,880
piece with an article it ended up not

875
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:53,039
being that headline it being another one

876
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,240
so

877
00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:56,240
right there is an example of how media

878
00:32:00,630 --> 00:31:58,880
likes to turn things around themselves

879
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,640
and create other narratives too right so

880
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:02,880
i think we need to get better at

881
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:05,360
us telling the story to media and making

882
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:07,519
sure that we're like hey that's actually

883
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:09,519
not what we said and that needs to be

884
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:12,159
corrected so that doesn't happen along

885
00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,440
with then understand that we need to

886
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:15,760
keep educating them

887
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:17,039
and thought

888
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,799
no i love that actually i think some of

889
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:20,240
the people in the live chat are like go

890
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,430
now one thing that kind of did hit the

891
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:28,080
mainstream a few years back now was when

892
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,960
former defense minister paul hellier

893
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:32,399
sort of came out and started talking

894
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:34,080
about the ufo subject with quite some

895
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:37,039
quite bold claims as well um

896
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,480
victor if you if you'd like to if you

897
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:39,840
could tell everyone a little bit a bit

898
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,919
about paul hellyer and and and what he

899
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:44,240
represented you know

900
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:47,200
well it's essentially um

901
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:49,039
it's uh you know people might have heard

902
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:50,559
the story before

903
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:53,360
but um in in doing uh the radio program

904
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:55,120
strange days indeed with arrow bruce

905
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,159
knapp

906
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:58,159
i guess it was probably

907
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,440
i did 15 years with the program but i

908
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:03,360
got a call one night in uh i think it

909
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:05,360
was 2005.

910
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,559
the year that we were planning the

911
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,640
symposium at the university of toronto

912
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,080
from someone saying we you've got to

913
00:33:13,909 --> 00:33:12,399
talk to paul hellyer and at the time i

914
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:13,919
you know i knew paul hillier but i had

915
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:15,919
no idea he had any interest at all in

916
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:17,360
the ufo issue which he didn't really at

917
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,480
the time

918
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,960
so uh i called paul and i said you know

919
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,399
we're having a symposium want you to

920
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,480
come forward and talk to us about it

921
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,480
this is the the reader's digest version

922
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:28,080
of it

923
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:30,960
and he said no i i couldn't do that

924
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:32,399
so i said okay i'll call you back in a

925
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,840
week or so once you finish reading the

926
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:35,919
book that you've got there the day after

927
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:38,080
roswell you might change your mind so

928
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,320
about two weeks went by um and i called

929
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:42,000
him again he said yes i'll do it so he

930
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:43,840
came forward at the university of

931
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:46,000
toronto before 500 people in the media

932
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:48,799
and he was the first

933
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,039
minister of cabinet rank to come forward

934
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:53,200
demanding that the canadian government

935
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,720
actually uh make the ufo issue something

936
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:58,399
of a priority which they never really

937
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,279
did

938
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:01,440
so he just kept on investigating things

939
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:03,360
and bringing things forward uh over the

940
00:34:07,110 --> 00:34:05,360
years until he passed away just last

941
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:07,120
august so um

942
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:08,960
he was really someone who raised the

943
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:10,879
specter of this

944
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:12,399
within the canadian community in a way

945
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:14,079
that no one else has

946
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:14,960
and

947
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:18,480
of it we work with different different

948
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:20,399
media he had

949
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:23,280
interviews globally uh so he was someone

950
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:26,000
who really really went out on a limb and

951
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:27,919
paul was um

952
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,079
he's a daredevil in a lot of ways he's

953
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:32,639
the he's someone who really took chances

954
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:34,560
on everything

955
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:37,280
and in doing so he he got a lot of flack

956
00:34:41,270 --> 00:34:38,960
from it a lot of flak from his

957
00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:41,280
colleagues from his political colleagues

958
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,800
but he didn't care he didn't care one

959
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,480
way or another but he wanted the truth

960
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:47,040
to come out that we are in fact being

961
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:49,359
not just ufos are real he said that ufos

962
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:50,720
are as real as the airplanes that fly

963
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:51,919
over your head

964
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:53,679
but um

965
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,399
he went on later on to make it very very

966
00:35:01,589 --> 00:34:58,560
clear that we are being engaged by

967
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,599
off-world civilizations

968
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,599
in point there was no doubt in his mind

969
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:05,520
and many other people that he spoke to

970
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,119
behind the scenes so this in fact was

971
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:09,359
correct so he really raised the bar in

972
00:35:15,270 --> 00:35:12,480
canada but unfortunately uh you know

973
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:15,280
times past people pass and the message

974
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,640
gets dwarfed into uh into a

975
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,880
you know a whole secrecy or whatever you

976
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:22,320
want to call it and that's where we're

977
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:24,560
at right now as big as this contribution

978
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:26,960
was uh it somehow has been laid by the

979
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:29,359
wayside but it won't stay there for long

980
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,720
though

981
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:32,560
yeah hopefully you know

982
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:35,280
his uh his legacy will continue and

983
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,320
and it won't certainly won't be

984
00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:37,920
forgotten

985
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:39,760
he deserves the credit for like you say

986
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:41,920
for for coming out not being afraid and

987
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:44,240
for taking the flack and it not being

988
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:46,720
scared to do so and then but within the

989
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:48,720
government and canada and that we have

990
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:51,599
seen recently that um i think it's

991
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:53,920
larry mcguire uh from from the

992
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:56,960
parliament recently discussed uap in

993
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:58,640
front of

994
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,119
a committee i forget natural resources

995
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:03,040
maybe you know that was something that

996
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,040
kind of came out of left field for a lot

997
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:07,760
of people to see someone new in canada

998
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:09,200
discussing this in such an important

999
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,720
role

1000
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:12,480
let me interrupt you there for a second

1001
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:13,520
to vinny

1002
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:16,320
with respect to paul hellyer

1003
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:19,680
uh i think it was probably 2010 if i'm

1004
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:20,720
correct

1005
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:23,119
uh i spoke with paul

1006
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:24,960
and this is in reference to getting this

1007
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:27,839
into the canadian government so to speak

1008
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:29,280
right um

1009
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:31,599
and uh in the context of what's

1010
00:36:36,310 --> 00:36:34,800
happening just recently with mcguire

1011
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:36,320
it's not the first time

1012
00:36:39,270 --> 00:36:37,119
okay

1013
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:39,280
paul and i decided

1014
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:43,990
the senator in charge of the defense

1015
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:46,800
committee here in canada okay

1016
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,480
senator colin kenny

1017
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,400
and we devised a plan where paul would

1018
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:52,480
go up there

1019
00:36:57,349 --> 00:36:54,880
and try to introduce colin kennedy as

1020
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,359
the uh you know the the the chair of the

1021
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,920
canadian defense senate committee to uh

1022
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:01,680
to deal with this issue and the reason

1023
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:04,240
that paul did it was because the colin

1024
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,720
kennedy was at one time

1025
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:08,880
paul hellyer's campaign manager when he

1026
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:10,960
ran in trinity bellwoods here in toronto

1027
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,839
to become the first uh uh and become the

1028
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,680
youngest member of parliament to to

1029
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:17,200
attain that position

1030
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:19,040
and so they were very close friends so

1031
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:22,960
paul went up to um to ottawa

1032
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:25,839
and sat in colin kenny's office and he

1033
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:27,760
had been briefed before by paul by

1034
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:29,119
telephone but he brought all his

1035
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:30,960
documentation forward

1036
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:31,920
and

1037
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:33,920
as chair of the defense committee in the

1038
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:36,560
senate which is a pretty lofty position

1039
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:39,359
mr hellyer spent a good part of the day

1040
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,359
presenting his information to to colin

1041
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:43,200
kenny okay

1042
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,800
and uh with the hope that he brings

1043
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:46,800
forward to the senate

1044
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:49,040
and after a full day of this

1045
00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:52,000
mr mr kenny senator kennedy just you

1046
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,599
know leaned back in this chair and he

1047
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,359
said you know what paul

1048
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:57,920
this is too big a fish for me to fry

1049
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,839
end of story

1050
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:02,400
so we know that the the senate committee

1051
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:04,880
at the time the chair at least whether

1052
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,079
he brought it forward to his colleagues

1053
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:08,000
or not the chair of that committee knew

1054
00:38:12,390 --> 00:38:09,599
about this information he had had been

1055
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,400
briefed by hellier on it so

1056
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:13,839
the canadian government has known about

1057
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:15,760
this for so long

1058
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:17,200
and when i say government i'm not

1059
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:18,960
meeting you know people in parliament

1060
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,079
you know sitting in parliament i'm

1061
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:22,480
talking about the upper echelons like

1062
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,400
senator kenny so

1063
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:26,480
from that point of view uh now that

1064
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,400
maguire has done what he's done which is

1065
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:31,520
a huge break i must i must say uh you

1066
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,599
know this has been going on within

1067
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:36,000
percolating behind the scenes within the

1068
00:38:45,510 --> 00:38:42,710
yeah chrissy or daniel anything to say

1069
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,520
well yeah i i can speak uh

1070
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:47,520
at length it would happen with uh mr

1071
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,000
maguire uh just some background on that

1072
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:53,280
uh larry maguire is a member of

1073
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:56,079
parliament uh in mana for manitoba a

1074
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,720
federal politician he's a conservative

1075
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:00,320
member of parliament so that they

1076
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,560
currently form the opposition to justin

1077
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:04,640
trudeau's liberal party right now as

1078
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:08,160
part of uh mr maguire's work he sits on

1079
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:09,920
a committee in parliament called the

1080
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:13,280
natural resources committee

1081
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:15,599
excuse me and so during committee they

1082
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:18,240
were reviewing budgets and

1083
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:20,480
there was a note in there about uh

1084
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,520
nuclear facilities in canada being given

1085
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:26,880
money uh from the uh military for

1086
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:28,720
security for you know canadian nuclear

1087
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:29,920
facilities

1088
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:32,320
so uh mr mcguire saw that as an

1089
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:34,960
opportunity to raise specific questions

1090
00:39:40,310 --> 00:39:37,520
about whether or not there have been

1091
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:40,320
uap and security related cases involving

1092
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,119
uap at canadian nuclear facilities he

1093
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:44,960
posed those questions to the deputy

1094
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,520
minister of natural resources uh here in

1095
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:50,000
canada we have a great deal of uranium

1096
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:51,920
mining as well as several nuclear power

1097
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,400
plants and they're currently awaiting

1098
00:39:59,109 --> 00:39:56,800
answers you know this request didn't

1099
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:59,119
come out of nowhere i i can tell you

1100
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:00,880
that i've been in contact with mr

1101
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,280
mcguire's team for some time now i

1102
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:05,440
didn't know that they were doing this

1103
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:07,520
in advance but

1104
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,520
i was notified and i guess i was the

1105
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:11,280
first one to put that news out there by

1106
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:13,920
putting a video clip of him asking those

1107
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,000
questions in uh in parliament and

1108
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:18,240
subsequently his written response

1109
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:19,119
um

1110
00:40:24,309 --> 00:40:21,599
you know the way the way polit politics

1111
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,319
works here in canada there's not a great

1112
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,160
deal of room for

1113
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,640
independent voices

1114
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,720
party discipline is very strict you know

1115
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:32,560
if you look at the united states you'll

1116
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:33,760
see

1117
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:35,680
democratic senators or republican

1118
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:38,079
senators openly disagreeing with members

1119
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:39,920
of their own party that doesn't really

1120
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,240
happen in canada you know the only way

1121
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,960
to see any political movement on this

1122
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:46,960
in canada from an opposition member or

1123
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:49,359
really in anyone is is through committee

1124
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:51,599
work so mr mcguire has done a great job

1125
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,880
in raising these questions as they

1126
00:40:57,190 --> 00:40:55,200
pertain to nuclear facilities uh in the

1127
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,200
natural resources committee i'm still

1128
00:41:01,910 --> 00:40:59,280
very hopeful that other

1129
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,920
members of parliament who sit on defense

1130
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:03,520
intelligence

1131
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,040
committees as well as scientific

1132
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:07,280
community committees will raise similar

1133
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:08,800
questions because that's the only way

1134
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:10,240
we're going to be able to get the ball

1135
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:13,440
forward um as as for mr hellyer i i

1136
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:15,839
would like to perhaps uh provide a bit

1137
00:41:19,109 --> 00:41:17,200
of a differing

1138
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:19,119
perspective you know i'm familiar with

1139
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:20,640
him and his work and his tireless

1140
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:23,040
advocacy but i i

1141
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,920
not to discredit his memory but i i do

1142
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:26,880
believe

1143
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:29,520
that some of the conclusions that he was

1144
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,079
presenting as fact again made it very

1145
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:34,160
difficult for people who are new to the

1146
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:37,280
subject to digest the message he was he

1147
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:40,480
was saying as victor said uh mr hillary

1148
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:42,560
had come to his conclusions that you

1149
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,440
know

1150
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,920
earth was being visited by other beings

1151
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,760
and he wasn't afraid of expressing that

1152
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:50,160
fact but i i think you know as someone

1153
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,720
who's trying to wield uh influence

1154
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,040
uh not tailoring your message for the

1155
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:57,599
audience is is somewhat problematic and

1156
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:59,040
i think it ended up doing a bit of a

1157
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:01,599
disservice to his movement you know the

1158
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:03,520
people i've spoken to and who interacted

1159
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:06,319
with him uh you know they respected his

1160
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,200
advocacy but but at the same time they

1161
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:11,280
they wished he didn't push his

1162
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,480
conclusions

1163
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:14,400
uh and it should be noted you know he

1164
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,040
came to as victor mentioned he

1165
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:18,960
read some material and began researching

1166
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:21,599
the subject after his time in office i

1167
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:24,160
think with mr mcguire to see a sitting

1168
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,960
member of parliament uh you know stand

1169
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:28,720
up and ask the government serious

1170
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:31,200
questions about uap and nuclear security

1171
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,280
it's unprecedented it hasn't happened in

1172
00:42:37,670 --> 00:42:35,520
canada in decades and he should be

1173
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:37,680
applauded for uh you know for being

1174
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:39,920
brave and being one of the first ones in

1175
00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:42,079
office in parliament sitting to to do

1176
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:44,800
this and i i have reason to believe he's

1177
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:47,280
not done asking his questions and i

1178
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:50,240
hope others are going to follow suit

1179
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:53,599
yeah i say i agree i hope mr mcguire

1180
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:55,200
does the same thing and keeps advocating

1181
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:58,160
in that space you know myself with paul

1182
00:43:02,470 --> 00:42:59,599
hilliard you know i met him through

1183
00:43:03,430 --> 00:43:02,480
victor and i will say if anything gentle

1184
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,440
giant

1185
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:05,760
means so well you know

1186
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:07,599
wonderful human being

1187
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:10,319
amazing writer um and for sure maybe

1188
00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:12,000
some people didn't align with how what

1189
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:13,400
he thought about you know

1190
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:15,200
extraterrestrials and how he went about

1191
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:17,920
his approach but i will thank him for

1192
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:19,280
being one of the first people to come

1193
00:43:22,790 --> 00:43:22,000
forward and talk about ufos within you

1194
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,800
know

1195
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:24,480
with being a former

1196
00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,960
minister of defense so that wasn't that

1197
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,560
never happened before you know if you

1198
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,240
believe what he said or not when it

1199
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:32,880
comes to other issues with et's um but

1200
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,720
he did bring awareness to it and i thank

1201
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,319
him for that and i think he was he was

1202
00:43:39,829 --> 00:43:38,000
an amazing man he's a really really

1203
00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:39,839
great man and he met well and he meant

1204
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:42,240
to do well and i think that's what in my

1205
00:43:45,589 --> 00:43:44,160
mind that's what matters when i was

1206
00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:45,599
lucky enough to spend some time with him

1207
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:46,960
well i think it's interesting to point

1208
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:50,720
out as far as mr mcguire is concerned um

1209
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:53,359
and in my conversations with mr

1210
00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:54,640
mcguire's

1211
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:55,920
staff

1212
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:57,920
one individual who i spoke with now for

1213
00:44:01,109 --> 00:43:59,200
three times

1214
00:44:02,710 --> 00:44:01,119
for the third time

1215
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:02,720
it's come to my attention and i said

1216
00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:04,480
this on the radio um

1217
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:05,920
two weeks ago

1218
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:06,720
that

1219
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:08,079
i don't think this is this is mr

1220
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,040
mcguire's doing himself

1221
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,680
i've become convinced that someone uh

1222
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,000
one individual particularly

1223
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:18,720
in his office is completely

1224
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:21,040
plugged into this issue like no other

1225
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:23,440
political staff member that i know

1226
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,720
and in my discussions with this

1227
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,119
individual

1228
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:29,280
i got to

1229
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,160
interact with this individual on a very

1230
00:44:37,270 --> 00:44:34,160
specific basis

1231
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,280
about the i guess the background of the

1232
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:39,760
information that's going on right now

1233
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:42,160
and i asked several very very pointed

1234
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:45,599
questions and this individual

1235
00:44:49,829 --> 00:44:47,839
had all the answers

1236
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:49,839
he's up to speed and i don't know how

1237
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:52,720
old this individual is i feel he's uh

1238
00:44:56,230 --> 00:44:54,800
i wrote to the young fellow and he is

1239
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:56,240
completely up to speed with this

1240
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:58,720
information and even to the point of

1241
00:45:02,630 --> 00:45:00,480
pointing things out to me that that i

1242
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,640
didn't know okay

1243
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,720
and i am convinced that we have a

1244
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,200
disclosure advocate within the office of

1245
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:09,040
larry mcguire

1246
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,200
they won't come out and say that

1247
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:13,520
but the individual that i spoke to is cl

1248
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:15,280
quite clearly in possession of

1249
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:16,640
information either on his own through

1250
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:19,119
his own research or through research

1251
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:20,640
that he has to the canadian government i

1252
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:23,119
don't know where he's getting it all

1253
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:24,800
but he's indeed

1254
00:45:30,069 --> 00:45:27,280
plugged into this issue and it is beyond

1255
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:30,079
me that how larry maguire

1256
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:31,760
and correct me if i'm wrong how larry

1257
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:34,160
maguire would find out about the senate

1258
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:36,000
intelligence committee and their work

1259
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:37,839
okay he could have done it on his own

1260
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,599
but the importance of it

1261
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,599
that's up to somebody else so i'll

1262
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,040
repeat it again

1263
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:45,440
somebody in mr mcguire's office is a

1264
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:47,920
disclosure advocate how that happens how

1265
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,839
the two rails are going to meet

1266
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:52,319
eventually within parliament

1267
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,160
that's going to be up to mr mcguire to

1268
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:56,560
make those two rails meet right now

1269
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:58,000
you've got the

1270
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,640
resources committee uh

1271
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:02,400
moving in one direction and then you

1272
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:03,839
have the defense

1273
00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:05,440
committee and department defense moving

1274
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:06,560
in another

1275
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:08,880
and those two rails as it was explained

1276
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:11,440
to me will never meet or will meet under

1277
00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:14,000
very unusual circumstances what has to

1278
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:15,920
happen and if mr mcguire is worth

1279
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,160
assault he will make those two rails

1280
00:46:22,150 --> 00:46:20,720
converge and that's up to him right now

1281
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:22,160
that's a very big move that he's going

1282
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:24,000
to have to make with the help of the

1283
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:26,560
staff member that i spoke to

1284
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:27,599
yeah i also don't think this

1285
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:29,920
conversation's done in canadian politics

1286
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:31,839
like it's trickling its way up so we're

1287
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:34,079
going to hear more for sure like i don't

1288
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,839
think it's going to go away

1289
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,599
um we just have to wait to see what

1290
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:39,040
happens right and there might be people

1291
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:40,400
there will be more people advocating in

1292
00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:41,839
all different parties that we're not

1293
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:45,040
sure of um because again like i think a

1294
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,240
lot of people even though you're with

1295
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:47,760
the political party you might still

1296
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:49,760
might find ufos interesting and you've

1297
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:51,520
been always curious and now that the

1298
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:54,160
mainstream media has kind of welcomed it

1299
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:56,319
and american politics have welcomed it

1300
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,680
you might see canadian politics

1301
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:59,280
following in soup because it feels that

1302
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:00,960
there is some you know the ridicules

1303
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:02,880
left behind a little bit so i think

1304
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:04,640
we'll see more of it but for sure i

1305
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:07,119
think but politically

1306
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,640
both sides are probably looking at it

1307
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,480
more than we would imagine does anyone

1308
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:12,000
know if um

1309
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:14,160
if john hannaford has produced a

1310
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:17,520
response to larry mcguire's letter

1311
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:18,640
yes

1312
00:47:23,670 --> 00:47:20,960
the no they produced a response to his

1313
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:23,680
verbal questions

1314
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:27,200
and but not a response to the

1315
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,319
written letter itself i i can also throw

1316
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:32,800
out there um that

1317
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,680
there is a degree of awareness

1318
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:39,839
of current events

1319
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,839
at some of the highest levels of the

1320
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:43,440
canadian government

1321
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:46,000
and i very much hope to be sharing that

1322
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:47,920
in a story with you hopefully within the

1323
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:48,720
month

1324
00:47:54,490 --> 00:48:02,230
[Laughter]

1325
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:05,030
members of government watch cnn you know

1326
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:06,400
they they

1327
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,680
they saw the news about the odni report

1328
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,520
and there was a desire to get up to

1329
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:14,240
speed and i guess i'll leave it there

1330
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,599
but that's really promising there has

1331
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,040
been briefings too there's been

1332
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:19,680
briefings too from american to canadian

1333
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,040
um you know about ufos we know that

1334
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:25,280
there's been briefings on both sides for

1335
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:27,200
americans to canadians well i know that

1336
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,280
six members of congress six members of

1337
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,440
the uh not congress but six members of

1338
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:33,599
the the parliament have been briefed by

1339
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,400
uh

1340
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:36,480
by people yeah i

1341
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:38,720
yeah and i think that there's

1342
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:40,720
for sure i would not be surprised we

1343
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:42,079
know that that's been going on i think

1344
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,280
even just before the preliminary

1345
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,119
assessment report it was happening you

1346
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:47,200
know we are sistering countries they're

1347
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:49,520
we're going to talk you know uk we're

1348
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,040
probably talking to uk more than we'd

1349
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,760
even imagine about this topic as well so

1350
00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:55,839
like i we're all connected in the

1351
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,640
western world so our political systems

1352
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,559
are having conversations

1353
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:02,640
canada just was just run up to speed

1354
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:04,000
probably a little bit later than it

1355
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,480
should be and taking a neat american

1356
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,400
canadian media is just really lacking

1357
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,319
around telling the story but it will

1358
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:12,000
change you know it will change and there

1359
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:13,440
will be some other forms of advocacy

1360
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:15,599
that will happen and you know we'll

1361
00:49:19,829 --> 00:49:17,839
slowly see it progress but that's very

1362
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:19,839
canadian you know it's very canadian for

1363
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:21,920
media to pick it up and the topic to be

1364
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,640
very very slow so i'm not holding my

1365
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,319
breath for anything to happen like right

1366
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:28,800
away but it will happen over time

1367
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:30,240
it definitely mirrors what's happening

1368
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:32,400
here in the uk we always follow suit

1369
00:49:37,030 --> 00:49:34,640
after the us has done something we

1370
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:37,040
you know we just follow we don't

1371
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:39,280
match them it's we're always behind you

1372
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:41,040
know it sounds like canada and even

1373
00:49:44,470 --> 00:49:42,160
australia

1374
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:44,480
are very much in similar

1375
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:45,920
levels let's say

1376
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:48,800
um but daniel recently you obviously

1377
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:51,839
broke this big story that you'd received

1378
00:49:56,950 --> 00:49:54,240
was it hundreds of documents

1379
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:56,960
20 plus years um was there anything in

1380
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:59,280
there i mean sorry let me just backtrack

1381
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,480
would you be able to just tell us how

1382
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:03,119
that came about how you got them and and

1383
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,720
any findings that

1384
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,720
were positive about what we can expect

1385
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:08,480
going forward yeah yeah a little

1386
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:10,559
background on that story so

1387
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:13,680
uh just over a year ago i filed a what

1388
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:15,119
we call in canada and access to

1389
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:17,119
information requests foia freedom of

1390
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:18,800
information in the u.s

1391
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:22,960
um i filed a access information request

1392
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,079
asking for two decades worth of uap

1393
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:28,319
related material from the federal

1394
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:30,880
transportation authority which oversees

1395
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:33,440
uh all aviation in the country so you

1396
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,280
know the first time i asked they got

1397
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,119
back to me and said that they didn't

1398
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:39,200
have it and then you know i just kept

1399
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:40,720
asking for the documents in different

1400
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,599
ways posing more specific questions uh

1401
00:50:47,829 --> 00:50:45,680
learning the structure of

1402
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:47,839
the organization and targeting specific

1403
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:50,400
offices within it and then lo and behold

1404
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,040
through two separate access information

1405
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:55,040
requests we were able to obtain

1406
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,000
290 pages of reports which can you know

1407
00:51:02,230 --> 00:51:00,160
within there there were you know ufo

1408
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,240
reports from commercial pilots

1409
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:04,240
a few from military personnel police

1410
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,839
officers a lot of

1411
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:07,520
civilian sightings that had been made to

1412
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:09,520
aviation officials as well

1413
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,480
and

1414
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:12,160
i guess that that's it so you know i

1415
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:14,640
wrote a story about the sort of greatest

1416
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:15,920
hits in there you know some of that

1417
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:18,079
stuff in there isn't uh some of that

1418
00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:19,680
stuff isn't going to be new to people

1419
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:21,119
who've been following canadian

1420
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:24,240
developments very closely uh but i think

1421
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:27,119
for general audiences to see this you

1422
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:28,800
know one

1423
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:31,280
you know huge volume of material 20

1424
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:33,040
years worth of ufo reports from

1425
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,880
transportation officials is it's

1426
00:51:39,190 --> 00:51:37,200
significant uh it's not every report the

1427
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:39,200
canadian government has i've been able

1428
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:42,000
to identify other you know uap reports

1429
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:44,160
held by transportation officials but

1430
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:46,400
that were given different categories in

1431
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,480
their uh reporting system

1432
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:50,880
there's also military reports that

1433
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,200
aren't part of this but you know this

1434
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:55,440
this 290 pages gives you a really good

1435
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,079
snapshot of the types of things

1436
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,240
particularly commercial aviators have

1437
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:02,640
been reporting over canada over in the

1438
00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:04,240
past two decades and it's you know

1439
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:07,040
reports from coast to coast it's solid

1440
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:09,599
objects it's lights it's things just

1441
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:12,160
hovering it's things moving erratically

1442
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:13,599
it's really the you know things that are

1443
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:15,680
huge things that are small it's just

1444
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,240
this sort of whole gamut of uh you know

1445
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:20,240
unusual experiences

1446
00:52:24,309 --> 00:52:22,000
um of all of them i think the one that

1447
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:24,319
stood out for me the most i have it

1448
00:52:28,470 --> 00:52:25,520
right in front of me right here is from

1449
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:28,480
december 2018

1450
00:52:33,190 --> 00:52:31,200
there's a very famous canadian case uh

1451
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:33,200
from a place called shag harbor nova

1452
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:36,160
scotia from october 1967

1453
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,480
where multiple witnesses observed a

1454
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:40,400
luminous object disappearing into the

1455
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:43,119
ocean well just you know

1456
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:45,839
really really close to there there was a

1457
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:48,559
on december 2018 there was a fisherman

1458
00:52:54,790 --> 00:52:51,680
in the bay of fundy and a woman at home

1459
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:54,800
in nova scotia who both separately

1460
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:57,520
contacted a search and rescue center in

1461
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:00,640
the city of halifax to report a glowing

1462
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:04,559
object hovering high out over the ocean

1463
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:06,319
the search and rescue department

1464
00:53:11,190 --> 00:53:08,960
contacted a canadian air force squadron

1465
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:11,200
that's affiliated with norad which is

1466
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:13,760
the joint canada u.s group that you know

1467
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:14,800
defends

1468
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:16,079
north american

1469
00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:18,559
airspace and and etc

1470
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:20,880
so they contacted this squadron and they

1471
00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:23,920
did a review of norad radar and lo and

1472
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:28,079
behold uh norad radar picked up a object

1473
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:30,720
that correlated almost exactly to the

1474
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:33,040
time and location of the sighting which

1475
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,800
lasted over half an hour

1476
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:36,880
and they you know

1477
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:38,960
most of the reports in this release

1478
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:40,400
usually there's just a few lines of

1479
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:41,520
details

1480
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:43,839
this one was you know a full

1481
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:45,839
report with lots of paragraphs

1482
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:48,400
explaining how they couldn't understand

1483
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:50,079
how they could get a radar hit that

1484
00:53:54,309 --> 00:53:52,160
suddenly appeared nearly 12 000 feet

1485
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:54,319
above the ocean hung out there for you

1486
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:55,920
know 40 odd minutes and then just

1487
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:58,480
disappeared um they were left stumped

1488
00:54:01,589 --> 00:54:00,240
their report which is included in the

1489
00:54:03,670 --> 00:54:01,599
story in the release you can read it

1490
00:54:05,510 --> 00:54:03,680
yourself they say their best guess was

1491
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:05,520
weather but they didn't know and i

1492
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:06,960
thought that one was interesting because

1493
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:08,079
it's not

1494
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:11,680
too often that i'm finding uh you know

1495
00:54:16,230 --> 00:54:14,880
uap ufo sightings that you know multiple

1496
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:16,240
witnesses and then it's being

1497
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:18,880
corroborated by military sensors so and

1498
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:21,359
and then the proximity to uh shag harbor

1499
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:23,599
nova scotia anecdotally i thought was

1500
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:24,960
quite interesting too so i guess that's

1501
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:26,800
one of the ones that spoke for me but i

1502
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,960
think overall it's just the volume of

1503
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:31,359
reports the fact that you know there's

1504
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:33,599
two decades of pilots seeing strange

1505
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:36,000
things over canada at least for me you

1506
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:37,680
know i don't i'm not the guy with

1507
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,920
conclusions but it reinforces for me

1508
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:41,599
that there's a mystery there worth

1509
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:43,680
investigating well i think it's it's

1510
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:45,760
more than it's more than a mystery

1511
00:54:51,349 --> 00:54:48,720
daniel um i i think that the whole shag

1512
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:51,359
harbor incident uh back in 2000 pardon

1513
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:53,440
me in 1967

1514
00:54:57,770 --> 00:54:55,839
um was extremely delicate in the way it

1515
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:57,780
was handled by the rcmp

1516
00:55:00,710 --> 00:54:59,280
[Music]

1517
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:00,720
with the number of people within the

1518
00:55:05,750 --> 00:55:03,680
rcmp that cataloged information about it

1519
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:05,760
and with those rcmp officers who

1520
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:08,480
actually witnessed the lights in the sky

1521
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:10,240
now what most people don't know about

1522
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:13,599
that incident is that a huge

1523
00:55:17,670 --> 00:55:14,640
um

1524
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:17,680
expenditure of time and energy and money

1525
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,480
was expended on getting navy divers

1526
00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:22,319
to go down below the surface of the

1527
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:24,400
water to investigate the nature

1528
00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:25,920
of what might have happened under the

1529
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:27,520
water

1530
00:55:35,430 --> 00:55:33,359
some disappeared

1531
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,440
into the horizon but they left behind a

1532
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:37,520
yellow foam of some kind

1533
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:40,079
and that seems to be part of the whole

1534
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:41,520
enigma about this and that's where the

1535
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:43,520
divers began to dive

1536
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:45,599
and i won't even get into what they may

1537
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:46,960
have seen down there which is another

1538
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,400
story altogether

1539
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:50,079
however the interesting part of this

1540
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:53,119
particular story is one navy diver uh

1541
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:56,160
and another female witness to this this

1542
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:57,280
incident

1543
00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:59,520
uh both of them

1544
00:56:04,309 --> 00:56:02,079
uh subsequently were called to uh the

1545
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:04,319
office of curtis lemay

1546
00:56:07,990 --> 00:56:05,599
i don't know if you could if you know

1547
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:08,000
who curtis lemay was but uh he was a

1548
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:10,559
famous and very very powerful american

1549
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:12,720
general during the second world war

1550
00:56:16,390 --> 00:56:14,079
responsible for

1551
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:16,400
developing strategic um places where

1552
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:18,960
bombs could be deployed

1553
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:22,000
and he was a major instigator of a lot

1554
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:24,720
of aggression within the uh within the

1555
00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:26,480
military

1556
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,680
barry goldwater had an opportunity

1557
00:56:34,150 --> 00:56:31,040
to meet with him but i'll get into that

1558
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,160
in a moment in any case this diver and

1559
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:36,799
and the witness uh the daughter of the

1560
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,720
of the of the diver were called to the

1561
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:40,960
office of curtis lemay and brought into

1562
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:43,359
the office and both of them were sat

1563
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:44,400
down and told

1564
00:56:48,789 --> 00:56:46,480
that they were never to utter any

1565
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:48,799
information about shank harbor ever

1566
00:56:51,910 --> 00:56:49,680
again

1567
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:51,920
and he was forced to sign a disclosure a

1568
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:53,680
non-disclosure agreement

1569
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:55,200
and i'm investigating this with the

1570
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,799
witness

1571
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,640
we're hoping that the father of this

1572
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:01,440
witness um may come forward but i know

1573
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:03,920
for sure that the individual woman who

1574
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:06,480
was in fact a witness uh will be coming

1575
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,440
forward very soon and i'll talk to her

1576
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:11,280
and finding out whether or not we can go

1577
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:13,599
forward with this in in a meaningful way

1578
00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:14,480
so

1579
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:16,880
very interesting twist to the story well

1580
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:19,359
get him now it's definitely one of the

1581
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,319
most important and documented

1582
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,319
mass sightings in canadian history and

1583
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,720
because it occurred in 1967

1584
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:28,400
victor i wish you all the luck you know

1585
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:30,720
the the clock is ticking some of those

1586
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,640
folks might be getting on in yours we

1587
00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:34,720
get those testimonies sir i have all the

1588
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:36,079
faith in you

1589
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:40,079
i would give chris rakowski a call

1590
00:57:44,470 --> 00:57:42,559
um and with that said about him too like

1591
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:44,480
he was the one that collected all of

1592
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:46,880
these reports for years to come and i

1593
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:48,400
think daniel you talked we talked about

1594
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:49,760
this in the interview i did with you too

1595
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,000
that he's not doing it anymore that the

1596
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,880
government's not um giving him reports

1597
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:56,960
okay vinnie i'm gonna ask if it's okay

1598
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,960
you ask a question did you know where i

1599
00:58:01,990 --> 00:58:00,640
forget where are they where are they

1600
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,000
putting their reports now where are they

1601
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,559
being filed since chris isn't doing it

1602
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:06,400
yeah some background for those who don't

1603
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,040
know uh chris rutkowski is a winnipeg

1604
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:11,520
manitoba based ufologist he's been

1605
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:15,280
engaged in that topic for 30 40 years

1606
00:58:19,270 --> 00:58:17,680
uh his you know lots of articles he's

1607
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:19,280
written lots of books and one of his

1608
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:21,520
biggest contributions

1609
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:24,640
is every year he produces a survey that

1610
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:26,480
collects you know he tries to basically

1611
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:29,119
collect and collate all ufo sightings

1612
00:58:32,230 --> 00:58:30,880
from a variety of sources that happen

1613
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:32,240
every year you know it's like thousands

1614
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:33,760
of cases every year

1615
00:58:38,150 --> 00:58:36,720
um starting in the late 90s or early

1616
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:38,160
2000s

1617
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:40,480
just after as i mentioned previously the

1618
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:42,559
national research council of canada used

1619
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:45,040
to receive ufo reports from various

1620
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:47,760
parts of uh the government and military

1621
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,280
well when they stopped doing that chris

1622
00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:51,359
knew people there and he asked them you

1623
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:52,799
know well if you're not going to be

1624
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:54,880
taking these reports you know i'll take

1625
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:57,920
them uh the way he describes it uh years

1626
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,680
later he received a call from someone in

1627
00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:01,760
the military confirming that he was the

1628
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:03,280
guy who still wanted to receive the

1629
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,000
reports and thus started a two-decade

1630
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:08,400
relationship where he was receiving

1631
00:59:12,789 --> 00:59:10,799
ufo reports directly from the canadian

1632
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:12,799
military and directly from transport

1633
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:15,119
canada which is the federal

1634
00:59:20,390 --> 00:59:17,200
transportation department that i

1635
00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,400
received those 290 pages of reports from

1636
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,480
uh you know by his own admission he

1637
00:59:26,309 --> 00:59:24,799
didn't receive all the reports uh there

1638
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:26,319
one you know there's certain ones for

1639
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:28,480
example if norad radar picks up

1640
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,839
something and there's a clear defense

1641
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,839
nexus those weren't being handed to him

1642
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:34,240
but he was being sent unredacted reports

1643
00:59:38,789 --> 00:59:36,400
from pilots citizens you know police

1644
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,799
officers etc and the data from those

1645
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:40,799
reports was being used in his annual

1646
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:41,920
survey

1647
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:45,760
um the way as i understand it in 2021

1648
00:59:49,910 --> 00:59:47,760
just last year

1649
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:49,920
amidst heightened scrutiny of the

1650
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,119
subject

1651
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:53,520
transport canada stopped sending him

1652
00:59:57,670 --> 00:59:55,200
this and when i asked them questions

1653
01:00:00,069 --> 00:59:57,680
about it they sent a very offensive and

1654
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,079
dismissive email to me saying that they

1655
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:02,400
had only supplied these reports to chris

1656
01:00:06,630 --> 01:00:04,720
as a courtesy for his fiction research

1657
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:06,640
you know that's that's how their public

1658
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:09,920
affairs department come on guys

1659
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,720
horrible pr response so he's been cut

1660
01:00:16,710 --> 01:00:15,359
off it's it's unclear

1661
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:16,720
what what his stance is with the

1662
01:00:20,950 --> 01:00:19,680
military uh i asked the the military

1663
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,960
point blank and they say their

1664
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,200
procedures you know there's specific

1665
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:25,200
procedural documents i found from our

1666
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:26,640
air force that says you know forward

1667
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:29,119
these to chris uh they say those still

1668
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:31,359
stand uh the way

1669
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,720
you know you'd have to ask that correct

1670
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:34,400
question to chris but my understanding

1671
01:00:38,950 --> 01:00:36,960
is you know since about

1672
01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:38,960
six months to a year ago he stopped

1673
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:41,359
receiving the data that the taps have

1674
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,240
run dry so we're in this unfortunate

1675
01:00:48,710 --> 01:00:46,720
situation in canada now where you know

1676
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:48,720
when data is coming in it's just

1677
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:51,200
collecting dust as far as we know

1678
01:00:56,230 --> 01:00:53,440
because we still see you know reports

1679
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:56,240
are still being made uh you know the

1680
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:58,480
access information uh requests are

1681
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:01,040
revealing that but you know now now

1682
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:03,839
there's no like public person uh there's

1683
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:06,559
no person who's getting this um so it

1684
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:08,559
it's difficult you know when i'm talking

1685
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:10,000
to people in ottawa and people in

1686
01:01:14,630 --> 01:01:13,440
government i'm constantly advocating for

1687
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:14,640
two things

1688
01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:16,799
one that canada continues to view this

1689
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:18,960
as a scientific issue and not a military

1690
01:01:24,309 --> 01:01:21,599
issue because the second it's viewed as

1691
01:01:25,910 --> 01:01:24,319
a defense issue in canada all the types

1692
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:25,920
of data i've been able to pull through

1693
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:27,680
our access to information

1694
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:30,000
request system suddenly they can just

1695
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:31,520
withhold that on national security

1696
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:33,119
grounds it's the same in the u.s you can

1697
01:01:37,349 --> 01:01:35,280
get a comment from a u.s senator about

1698
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:37,359
uap but you're going to have a very hard

1699
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:39,119
time finding any case data because it's

1700
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:40,640
all withheld on national security

1701
01:01:44,309 --> 01:01:42,960
grounds so i i give that one message

1702
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:44,319
that you know we need to keep this

1703
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:47,040
scientific perspective and two i think

1704
01:01:51,670 --> 01:01:49,599
canada needs to revive some sort of

1705
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,680
situation where these reports you know

1706
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:53,520
are redacted where personal information

1707
01:01:57,589 --> 01:01:55,760
is redacted but then it's being put out

1708
01:01:59,589 --> 01:01:57,599
there so you know researchers and

1709
01:02:02,390 --> 01:01:59,599
scientists and anyone who's interested

1710
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:02,400
in the subject uh you know can access it

1711
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:04,720
so i'm actively advocating for that i'm

1712
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,359
a huge proponent of data transparency

1713
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:09,200
and um you know if anyone who's

1714
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:11,520
listening you know is in government or

1715
01:02:15,029 --> 01:02:12,960
as a canadian and wants to write their

1716
01:02:16,870 --> 01:02:15,039
member of parliament you know we really

1717
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:16,880
need to advocate for more and better

1718
01:02:21,109 --> 01:02:19,039
data and more transparency because as it

1719
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:21,119
stands now chris isn't getting it you

1720
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,559
know there's no research institution

1721
01:02:27,510 --> 01:02:24,480
getting it uh it's going to be complete

1722
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:27,520
silence and we we want more more and

1723
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:29,680
better data right so i think something

1724
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:30,960
has to change

1725
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:33,039
yeah now listen before we finish it we

1726
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:34,400
just hit the hour mark but before we

1727
01:02:38,150 --> 01:02:35,920
finish up do you feel like i've missed

1728
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:38,160
anything when it comes to talking about

1729
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:42,160
the relationship between canada and ufos

1730
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:43,359
is there anything god we could talk

1731
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:46,079
about stories forever but

1732
01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:48,799
i think those are the best

1733
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:50,880
well there's a fair amount but i would

1734
01:02:54,309 --> 01:02:52,480
say i think we've talked about the most

1735
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:54,319
recent stuff i think it's great i think

1736
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:56,319
it's a really great discussion

1737
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:58,000
that's fantastic and i really appreciate

1738
01:03:01,589 --> 01:02:59,839
all of you joining me and i'd love to

1739
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:01,599
invite you all back on separately as a

1740
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:03,599
panel again in the future i know that we

1741
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:04,880
can always have some fantastic

1742
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:07,520
conversations but uh for now guys i will

1743
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:09,920
just say thank you so much um thank you

1744
01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:11,760
to everybody that's been in the live

1745
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:13,599
chat watching as well for everybody that

1746
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:15,680
watches afterwards and for anybody that

1747
01:03:20,309 --> 01:03:17,599
listens afterwards on the anomalous

1748
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:20,319
podcast network i thank you all so much

1749
01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:22,319
i really appreciate all the support and